logo contest


False Voting Prevention

Logo contest is a great way to getting the community to choose its face. However, some measures should be taken to prevent false voting such as:

  • Registered members can vote.
  • Only Once.
  • Maybe transparent (member name visible) with optional comment.
  • Two rounds (maybe ten submissions in the second).

I think this should help the community to choose the clear winner among the submissions. bundyo 20:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I need to talk to X-Fade about setting up a voting system for the Community Council voting, we could reuse that for this voting. Probably apply a similar set of rules. User accounts must be 1 month old or have at least 10 karma points? —GeneralAntilles 07:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Maybe both? The Karma rule should be applied only to the voters though, so that everyone will be allowed to enter the contest. bundyo 11:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
That's a capital OR ;) and, yes, of course no karma limits for entrants. --GeneralAntilles 14:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
You are assuming that the result needs to be decide by the vote from a large amount of people. However, playing as devil's advocate, normally artworks and other creative works contest are decided by the consensus or vite of a reduced amount of people with a strong relation/involvement in the subject and an internal discussion before the selection. This was also the case at , where the decision was made by the project maintainers, not the large amount of launchpad users.--qgil 20:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Maybe they just have to have the last decision, but the community must show their preference, help them choose. bundyo 20:20, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Bundyo. Having community involvement (besides actually competing) is always a good idea, especially when it is for an open-source group.jakemaheu 20:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Or maybe the first decision i.e. going through a selection of 5 candidates from all submissions, and then the community vote. Or two rounds of votes perhaps. Or a preferential system. In any case voting between, say, 20 or more submissions is not easy and it is very likely that the option chosen hasn't reach anything like a 51% of support.--qgil 21:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, you're right, hard to choose from hundred submissions. 5 seems kinda low though. bundyo 22:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Practical proposal: what about completing and agreeing all the information needed to START the contest and allow people submitting their proposals. In the meantime we will have time to discuss the selection process. As far as we have something ready by August 1st...--qgil 12:55, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Where do we post our entries?

...Sorry for the stupid question, maybe I didn't read it carefully enough, but where do we post our entries? jakemaheu 20:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

This is only a proposal yet, it will be discussed and considered first. bundyo 20:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Whoops... I was already finishing my 4th design (just for kicks, to see what the GIMP could do) when I refreshed the page. jakemaheu 21:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Contest Debate

Just so people can express their opinions on this, let me be the first to say that I would love to do this. I do, however, have some questions.

  1. Would there be any age restrictions? (Please let there not be any)
  2. Who would be coordinating this?

Conclusion: Supportjakemaheu 21:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The idea is for this to be a community organized and driven contest. I'd don't see any purpose in age restrictions other than that there may be some issues with flying somebody underaged out to Germany for OSiM, this point will probably need clarification from Nokia, anyway. —GeneralAntilles 21:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks GA! The reason I asked is because I am 14 (the youngest IT user on ITT?) and want to enter.
I don't see any problem in entering the contest. If age is a problem with travelling then we could always find a substitute (no idea, but the showstoppers would be in the ticket purchase or the check-ins at the airport/hotel, not in Nokia's side).--qgil 21:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I did realize a tiny snag-- First, my parent's don't trust me enough to let me go to Germany for a few days alone. Secondly, I start school in August and am at a new school. What would be cool would be if they would supply a voucher or something for free WiMax for a period of time. (3 months, anyone?)
Second round with age restrictions. None to take part in the contest. None to get a device. About the travel, afaik nobody accepts international travel and accommodation bookings of minors (sorry for the legal terminology) unless they travel with an adult responsible. After con sider several alternatives, I think the best approach is to offer the trip and the device and see what can accept.--qgil 06:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Who takes the coordination?

As a Nokia employee, I really don't want to be in the middle of the organization of this contest. Who takes it? Of course I will help out and provide Nokia's view on whatever Nokia can inform i.e. details on the prize.--qgil 21:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, GeneralAntillies said that the idea was for it to be a community-driven contest, so I guess that would mean community-managed? jakemaheu 21:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Sure, but having people explicitly responsible of coordinating a task is generally a good idea.--qgil 21:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see what you mean now. But who? That would have to be some volunteers whom are not entering or biased (the hardest part if we want members from the ITT community). jakemaheu 22:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
The work that needs to be done now is to coordinate the discussion on rules and process until reaching conclusions. You can be entering and biased and be an efficient coordinator of these tasks, as far as you don't campaign and don't get involved in the decision of the winner.--qgil 22:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the discussion, there needs to be a few lines in the sand drawn to avoid drawn-out discussions. I have previously run a GUADEC logo competition and a GIMP splash-screen competition, I would be happy to take on the work for this one, if there is no opposition. --dneary 22:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Rules Discussion

Selection process

Should the competition be community judged or run by a committee?

I prefer a small, transparent committee. Artwork chosen by poll is often bland, and it is easier to eliminate inappropriate candidates from consideration. --dneary 22:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

+1. Patch submissions are not accepted by popular election but by the ones that have won a reputation to manage the source code of a project. I don't see a problem in community terms for following the same principle for selecting a winning logo. There are some people that haw shown outstanding design/graphics interest in the Maemo community: Tim Samoff (author of the unofficial Maemo UI Guide), Urho Konttori (UKMP and other apps, now Nokia employee), Tuomas Kuosmanen (author of the curre layout aka tigert with a large free graphics background - Nokia employee), whoever designed the Canola UI, whoever is behind , Reggie Suplido (ITt founder, they do care about design), Dave Neary (experience in design contest, large track in free graphics), Daniel Martín Yerga (potentially top 3rd party contributor according to ) and then we could have a local celebrity like i.e. jimmac.--qgil 05:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Official guidelines (Sizes, formats)

  • Format: A logo should be available in a vector format (PDF or SVG) but the submission should be a reasonable resolution png (around 500x200 or so) - any bigger and judging becomes a pain.
  • Legal guidelines: The winning logo will undergo a legal review, so it should be original, and clear of trademark encumbrance. The cost of the legal review, if the winning logo is not acceptable, is the biggest risk factor in the competition, I think.
Nokia can help on this. Peter and I will be monitoring the entries. We can tell whether a specific candidate has some potential risk, probably with the help of brand people in the house.--qgil 05:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Artistic guidelines: Avoid gradients (hard to put on t-shirts & plate printing), keep the number of colours to a minimum (same reason). The logo should reflect the project and its values.
  • From the main page:
* The fonts used must have open license for use and distribution.
* You can go for pure text or add complementary graphical elements. No mascots or stand alone graphics, though. Let's keep the simplicity.

I don't believe it's useful to specify a licence for the fonts. This is only necessary if we want to make text which is not included in the logo with the same font, which is not typical. Better to simply have text converted to curves in the vector image. Suggesting that a "pure" text logo is best doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Better to let artistic creativity flow, and if we decide to choose a simple text-only logo, so be it.

Ok, this was my first attempt. Feel free to cfontinue in the lines you think are appropriate.--qgil 05:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

--dneary 22:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


How to word the licencing/ownership issue is tricky. It needs to be clear at the start.

There are three "obvious" solutions:

  • Have the logo licenced under a Creative Commons licence (I do not think that anything other than CC BY-ND would pass Nokia's legal department)
  • Have the owner make a usage grant to Nokia
  • Have ownership of the logo transferred to Nokia.

We should get a view on whether CC licencing is acceptable now, before opening the competition. The easiest way to get started now is to have "The submitter agrees to transfer ownership of the logo to Nokia". But we're opening ourselves up for conflict.

For reference, there's what SpamAssassin says:

The winner would have to be happy to assign rights to the image over to the ASF so it can be used freely by SpamAssassin, 
permission given to use it in books, on merchandise, etc. Authorship, however, is preserved -- and we will credit the 
designer in the CREDITS file in the distribution and on the website. (This is performed using the ASF's Contributor's 
License Agreement; see for details.) 

--dneary 22:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not about Nokia requirements but community guarantees. Nokia has the Maemo trademark that ultimately protects the Maemo name and its implementations i.e. a logo. Nokia has no interest owning the and not even having a specific usage grant. What looks better is the idea of an open license granting the community usage of the logo including its sources. Non-Derivative seems an obvious requirement for any kind of logo.--qgil 05:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
ND isn't quite that clear-cut - look at the difficulties that managing derivatives of the GNOME logo has given to us over the years. But in this case I think it's appropriate.

Entry submission procedure

Do this work for everybody as the entry submission procedure? Sizes and image formats need to be worked out further (vector formats like svg are probably preferable in the end).

Submission procedure

Contestants must follow the following procedure for submitting their logos.

  • Logos should be saved either as svg or png, and be at least 500 pixels wide. The winner will be expected to provide a high-quality vector or lossless bitmap image of their logo.
  • The logo should then be uploaded on the Special:Upload page. Please name your images in this format:
Maemo.org_logo_contest_<your username>.png

and enter this into the summary: logo contest entry from [[User:<your username>]]
  • After the logo has been uploaded, the user should then add their submission to the bottom of the logo contest entries page by editing the page and adding an entry in this format:
== <your username> ==

[[Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_<your username>.png]]

For example, my submission would be uploaded here: Image:Maemo.org_logo_contest_GeneralAntilles.png, and my entry would look like:

== GeneralAntilles ==


GeneralAntilles 07:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Then the voting system should be integrated in the wiki, wouldn't that be too hard to implement? Should be closer to the actual entry to prevent confusion while voting. bundyo 12:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
You tell me. ;) Wikipedia doesn't really do the whole voting thing, and I haven't been able to find any mediawiki plugins for it. Personally, I think it will be. —GeneralAntilles 16:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I know of one mediawiki rating plugin but it is for rating articles. And i never wrote mediawiki plugins too :) bundyo 18:56, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Then again, if XHR is used, the actual vote processing script can well be outside the wiki, sharing only the authentication. bundyo 20:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I really don't think voting is the best way to choose the logo. --dneary 22:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Since every user can have multiple entries, it is probably better to use galleries, thus ordering them nicely. Like this:
<gallery Caption="[[User:username]]" widths="300px" perrow="3">

which will result in something like this:

bundyo 16:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Image size and format

I'm not too concerned about the quality of the submissions (as long as they're at least judge-able and a little bit uniform), but we should definitely decide on what the winner is required to provide in the way of images. I'm thinking svg or psd and vector (or really big bitmap) is preferable. —GeneralAntilles 07:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

That would be fine with me-- I made a couple practice ones (that look pretty good, btw) and I exported them from the GIMP in .png format. If you'd like to see them, they're linked on my user page. 16:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
No need to reinvent the wheel? From : Logo must include SVG source and look good when scaled to any size. Some sample sizes that we use today are: 1. A small image of exactly 14x14 pixels and at most 5kb in size. (icon) 2. An image of exactly 64x64 pixels no bigger than 50kb in size. (logo/hackergotchi) 3. A large image of exactly 192x192 pixels be no bigger than 100kb in size. (mugshot)--qgil 20:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Then again there are many people using bitmap editors like Gimp and Photoshop and not familiar with vector drawing. bundyo 20:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Bundyo has a point-- the ones I made were made in the GIMP. Luckily, they can be exported in many different formats. Also, I now need to go look up vector drawing. jakemaheu 20:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
A good logo needs to be in vectorial format at the end. Perhaps not making a requirement to enter the contest, but a requirement to the winner (s/he can always get help from someone familiar with Inkscape or similar tools).--qgil 21:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
That sounds plausible. Provided the logo can be done with vectors. But generally yes, a requirement for the winner is good. bundyo 22:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
There has to be some other way to do this-- I tried Inkscape and failed miserably. Vector graphics don't make any sense to me. I'd be fine doing it REALLY high resolution, but vector graphics are a no-go-- for me at least. If someone wants to volunteer to turn the winner's entry into a vector format (if it isn't already), that would be a huge help to many, I'd imagine. jakemaheu 00:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
A logo that can't be handled by Scalable Vectors Graphics is not a good logo, by definition. It's the only sane way to work with an image that can result in a small icon in your browser or a huge banner in the street.--qgil 12:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Quim here - the logo should be a vector format. A logo that's only a bitmap won't hack it. --dneary 22:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Winning Issues

A new, separate problem would be this: "Who is paying?"

Doing an example search on Northwest Airlines (for me) from Detroit to Berlin is a 13 hour flight, and it costs almost $2300 (round-trip).

That, plus an N810W would total nearly $2700+, not including if the hotel is included. (Side Note: Do they have WiMax in Berlin? If they did, that would be sweet.)

Just making a note. jakemaheu 20:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Nokia pays.--qgil 21:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I just want to note that the cost of changing the logo, of doing the legal checks & balances, registering the trademark and all of the other things that go along with this competition will cost a hell of a lot more than $3000. --dneary 22:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Nokia has a dedicated team that works with brands and trademarks. The logo will not have an own trademark, it will be protected by the Maemo trademark that anyway needs an update.--qgil 06:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Pre-selection of candidates?

There could be a possibility of going through a pre-selection of candidates in order to filter those not matching the rules. For instance the image on the right has an explicit remembrance to the OS2008 wallpaper. Imagine voters (not always aware of the rules) love it and it wins.--qgil 21:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
This can be covered by the first round of voting by select members as you wrote above. bundyo 22:20, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah... about that... I read the rules, after I had made it, and made a mental note NOT to enter that one. I do like the look, however. I only made it as an example to see what I could do as a test. I'll probably end up removing that one. jakemaheu 22:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)