Editing Talk:Task:2010 Agenda

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== Continuing the 2010 brainstorm ==
While the 100 Days brainstorm is almost closed and in its way for planning and implementation, we can continue brainstorming now for the mid term agenda. The 100 Days discussion was imho very good and we have got a concrete agenda with many subpages that now will need to get into details and execution. We should do something similar now with the Agenda 2010. Deadline? As you wish, latest in 100 days in order to present the plan in OSiM & the maemo summit.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 20:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
:This is not moving forward alone. Proposing to close the 2010 Agenda during the [[100Days/Sprint2|Sprint 2]].--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 20:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

== Out of scope ==

=== End-user software wishlist ===
{{main|Software wish-list}}
Software requests are really '''out-of-scope''' and ''not relevant'' to this brainstorming session. Please see the main article.

'''End-user software wishlist''' is really out of scope here, for the reasons explained in the 100 Days discussion page. Even asking for specific developer toos that are not web server based are not very in the scope of this maemo.org exercise.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 13:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:So what '''is''' the scope for this long-term vision? How the community would like the *.maemo.org websites to be? What about the process that maemo the OS has been devloped (largely be Nokia)? A bit more explanation on '''your''' hopes on what this will achieve would be a useful steer, I think. --[[User:jaffa|jaffa]] 21:40, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Alright, what about this. maemo.org becomes "the best-in-class community for innovation on mobile devices running Linux". The maemo.org project is '''really''' community driven and in fact freedom to innovate is an essential part of its success. Nokia sponsors the project and helps in the parts where is needed, but doesn't stay in the way. What is on-topic in this brainstorm: the '''community''' objectives, dynamics, services, tools, etc, available in maemo.org - and what Nokia should do to leverage, empower, support them. To support you.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 18:54, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

=== IDE ===
I'm maybe asking for too much but an IDE with 
* syntax highlighting and code completion for the major used languages (C, C++, Python, maybe Vala, along with their Hildon/Osso integration)
* scratchbox building 
* directly build deb from IDE and post it to extras/devel
* run testing on device through SSH
will '''greatly''' help developers. [[User:bundyo|bundyo]] 20:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

: Something like [http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1204012983.html Eclipse] and/or [http://pluthon.garage.maemo.org/ PluThon]? [[User:generalantilles|generalantilles]] 21:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:: I'm aware of all the Eclipse integrations, however i was talking more in the lines of a smaller/native IDE like Geany/mEdit. [[User:bundyo|bundyo]] 21:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:: Vala on Monodevelop with a standalone emulator (i.e. could we avoid scratchbox?) would be a dream. --[[User:boxofsnoo|boxofsnoo]] 15:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

=== Office ===

IMHO; I think that the idea of an office suite Is not something that belongs on an IT better support for google docs or something of that nature would be a better idea, you don't have to worry about different versions or storage space on the device... Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:24.4.115.113|24.4.115.113]] 23:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

:Please consider offline use!  I don't think gDocs uses the screen space very well, and it's too slow for quick edits.  The ITs need to walk the line between feature bloat and speed/accessibility. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:boxofsnoo|boxofsnoo]] 11:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Marketing analysis ==
=== Target groups analysis  ===

Nice summary by Peter. Here are some analysis tables to try which might to help identify concrete tasks to get the best of people, relationships and networks (of course the tables are likely not complete) --[[User:Framstag|Framstag]].

So who are the people were are interested in to join the group? Who are the people that might be interested in the device?

* Developer
** Wants to reuse existing infrastructure => Try to better integrate with portals like www.sf.net and similar. Perhaps in the end www.mameo.org is just an anaggregator for other sides?
** Documentation, Examples, Development enviroment
** Looking for co-developers, loking for porters => resource market 
** Subgroup "Gtk/Gnome developer"
*** Wants to reduce porting => Identical APIs
** Subgroup "Foreign toolkit developer"
*** Wants to better integrate their application into the platform => Have two layer APIs, one that does not depend on Gtk libraries (or at least Gtk Event loop) and one that builds on top of that layer using Gtk/Gnome primitives.
** Subgroup "Game developer"
*** Wants more GUI power
*** Wants distribution channels
*** Wants (hardware) basics for new ideas and alternative games ideas
** Subgroup "Open Source activists"
*** Have everything open
** Subgroup "Commercial developers"
*** Require comerical support
* Software Porters
** Wants to reuse existing aproaches and solutions for the big distributions
** Would like to reduce changes to application, because developers is already prepared (screen resolution, network specifics) => push extended APIs upstream. Make thinks easier.
* Customizer (people reselling a hardware/software variant of the device, OS, GUI) 
** Wants the distribution modifyable from ground up => Make things available, more open, document more processes and tools
* Add-on Hardware suppliers
** Wants hardward documentation
** Wants more interfaces
* User
** Private person with no special interest (likely EMail, browser, calendar, adressbook, chat and some small games)
** Business User (Needs PIM inkl. Synchronisation (important!) and Office, MS compatibility is a must)
** Surfer (Uses the Device as primary or secondary browser, possibly also for EMail)
** Linux Advocat (needs ports of all the common Linux Tools)

=== Software group analysis ===

* Desktop ports
* Mobility specific software (GPS, Chat, Syncing)
* Games
* Multimedia

=== Future trends analysis ===

So where is the market going?

* Memory is cheap
* Ergonomics
* Mobility
* Synchronisation
* Convergence
* Education - http://wiki.sugarlabs.org, Tutorials and other educational tools built-in, such as complete man pages

==Unsure==
These are taken from the main page and perhaps go back there. They kind of mix software development with community activities.

=== Standards ===
The development for mobile devices forces the developers today, to focus on one target platform with one existing device. To give maemo a future, it will be essential to apply to existing standards, as well as work with other mobile projects to create new standards, wherever possible. Beyond the principal commitment to the GNOME Mobile stack and freedesktop.org standards, we have to formulate and support APIs and services for accessing and controlling the system functionality. Maybe a standardized DBus API currently rising at [http://www.freesmartphone.org FreeSmartphone.org] would the the right way.

=== Development Framework ===
* Better GPS resources. (GeoClue???)
* Development Tools and Utilities for Linux, OS X and Windows.
** GUI development package (reduce learning curve)
** Better feedback on testing of packages 
** make simple system for ideas to be tried 
** Better emulator on PC. Comes with most default applications of NIT and is based on a newer QEmu (at least one that supports Virtualization Extensions).
* Better modern native languages support - like Vala and D. && how to build a hello world app in C++/Vala in 10 minute (no more!)
:''Let's take what is relevant of these points for the maemo.org community and online infrastructure. For instance "Better feedback on testing of packages" and "make simple system for ideas to be tried".--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 09:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)''

=== Ship high level building blocks ===
* Think of media server, VoIP, contact lists, camera, GPS localization. Currently developers only have the low level API's, while mostly they just want a widget that displays the mentioned data and listen to user interaction signal or device signals. This also makes these functionalities look the same in all applications using them
:''This is out of scope in the 2010 Agenda call. API and developer offering in general will improve and we might organize similar a similar brainstorming for that.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 09:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)''

=== Eliminate porting and allow synchronisation with upstream distributions ===

A massive challenge and limiting factor for maemo is the lack of software that has been ported.  A great goal for 2010 would be to work out how to allow direct use of repositories from an upstream distribution (e.g. Debian testing armel) so packages do not have to be ported at all.  Initially this might only be for command line utilities, developer utilities, libraries, etc -- leaving GUI applications for a later phase.  There would still be a need for some ported packages, and some maemo-specific repositories to contain them, but the "long tail" of less frequently used packages would be made available.

Once this has been achieved, and a large number of packages are available, maemo should be able to be updated from the repositories chosen by the user: some users may choose to keep in sync with Debian stable, others with testing and some even with unstable.  This means that all packages (including system core packages like libc) need to be able to be updated (possibly with disclaimers).  Nokia could choose to create Nokia-specific versions of some core libraries if they want to avoid risk of library changes.

A further stage (probably beyond 2010) would be to work out how to allow kernel upgrades, without necessarily having to sacrifice the closed-source drivers for key hardware!  This could, for example, involve having a (limited) set of kernels available, with key closed source components rebuilt for them by Nokia, but not tied to ITOS release schedules.

The goal is to make the platform as useful as Debian is today, at least for those who do not insist on 100% openness.

== Marketing the community efforts to consumers ==
The maemo community is challenged by Nokia's need to succeed on the market. Not a unique position, but somehow strange for an open project. Right now IMHO, the output is by far not visible enough to average end users, which in turn means few users are likely to become active community members in the future. "Selling" the achievements of the community is crucial: End users need to know the potential of their devices and need to become a little curious so that some of them end up being active community members.
Existing problems are known: software distribution, localisation of maemo.org, communication, …

=== The one site for end users ===
To address those problems, I suggest to basically leave things as they at maemo.org but use a totally different site to showcase to first time users what the community achieves. This could well be [http://tableteer.nokia.com Tableteer] (which would have to be improved drastically, though!), meaning that Nokia would have to play an active role and there's little room for community input. It could also be (preferred) a Nokia funded community page or a sub-project of maemo.org, provided that Nokia really directs users there. 
The point is to have it
* localised (the way we treat non English-speaking customers is incredibly bad ATM)
* feature selected downloads with whole articles
* offer short and superficial "How-To"- and "Did You Know?"-style articles and tablet-optimised videos, always including "Where to find more software"
* syndicate everything from the high-quality extras-repository in a list with screenshots, localised descriptions etc.
* link to further community resources, preferably those in the language currently requested by the user agent if available
In short: It should be friendly, understandable, deliberately incomplete, offer only the very best the community can give at any time. Above all, it should make users want more and make users want to know more.
This should help take the strain from maemo.org about localisation, how to present software etc. - maemo.org can then safely focus on developers and very advanced users.
:''Yes, all true. As you say this is homework for Nokia and it should be out of maemo.org in order to guarantee community independence and freedom to do things (even wrong or broken things) in this context. There have been some steps in the consumer marketing directions i.e. Tableteer or http://nokia.com/os2008 . More needs to be done and the community aspect of maemo is one of the things that should be stressed as a unique offer for end users beyond the device they bought and the software that came with it. This task is already in our plans, thank you for your input on that.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 09:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::''Good to hear it is on the agenda! Pls. just reconsider the matter-of-factly "this is homework for Nokia"-part. It can be, yes, but so far, they didn't come up with very useful solutions. After 3 years (or five, talking about 2010) it could be time for the community to step forward and present itself better. -- [[User:ossi|ossi]] 11:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:::''FYI, Internet Tablet Talk is launching a new sister site ([http://www.tabletscene.com/ Tablet Scene])catering only to the new users of Internet Tablets / Maemo devices. Technical talk (eg. x-term commands) will be discouraged so new users will feel more welcome. Newbies then graduate to Internet Tablet Talk to talk about advanced topics. Another site coming is a separate software only site which links to maemo.org. With regards to just being 'one site', well, the plan is to link the sites together. --[[User:rsuplido|Reggie]] 00:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Loosing from nokia ==

Guys, you gotta loose yourself from the Nokia hardware, otherwise you will never take off! Regards, --[[User:kozuch82|kozuch82]] 22:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

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@@ Line 133: / Line 133: @@
 ::''Good to hear it is on the agenda! Pls. just reconsider the matter-of-factly "this is homework for Nokia"-part. It can be, yes, but so far, they didn't come up with very useful solutions. After 3 years (or five, talking about 2010) it could be time for the community to step forward and present itself better. -- [[User:ossi|ossi]] 11:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 :::''FYI, Internet Tablet Talk is launching a new sister site ([http://www.tabletscene.com/ Tablet Scene])catering only to the new users of Internet Tablets / Maemo devices. Technical talk (eg. x-term commands) will be discouraged so new users will feel more welcome. Newbies then graduate to Internet Tablet Talk to talk about advanced topics. Another site coming is a separate software only site which links to maemo.org. With regards to just being 'one site', well, the plan is to link the sites together. --[[User:rsuplido|Reggie]] 00:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
+== Loosing from nokia ==
+Guys, you gotta loose yourself from the Nokia hardware, otherwise you will never take off! Regards, --[[User:kozuch82|kozuch82]] 22:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)